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Posted by Editor on 19th June 2010 at 01:53 AM A response to David Ottewell - hyperlocal
by Tom Rodgers
In a recent blog post chief reporter of the Manchester Evening News David Ottewell attacked hyperlocal websites thus: "Too often, though, these sites disappoint. They end up simply regurgitating press releases, or ripping off stories from local newspapers, because they are one-man bands run by amateurs who don’t have the time, resources, or sometimes skills to dig out the news.
Often you’ll find the authors of these site blur the lines between news and commentary. Instead of finding exclusives, and dealing with them responsibly (by giving right or reply, say, and checking all facts are correct), they simply put their own heavy spin on other people’s stories. This isn’t ‘doing’ news, hyperlocal or otherwise. It’s commentary. And it is far less valuable. That’s what CP Scott meant when he said “Comment is free, but facts are sacred”. Finding the news is hard. Talking about it is easy."
Sites like ours can do something different. We've got two staff in Eccles, and we picked this up: a local history retrospective of Eccles Carnegie Library, Christopher Eccleston speaking Salford people's poetry at the opening (plus pictures of his mum and dad), plus an exclusive video interview with Chris talking about growing up in Salford, his early life being branded a remedial reader and his love of libraries.
It's only because of the ties we have to the local community that we're able to do this. Not to pick a fight, but the last three Eccleston namechecks in the MEN were two BBC press releases on his roles in John Lennon and a Jimmy McGovern drama, and a diary story on an I Am Kloot music video.
While sites like ours sometimes aren't run by professional journalists, editors of hyperlocal sites are often entrepreneurial journalists, freelancers and ex-newspaper editors who want to fulfil the desire for community journalism and features which exploit the best of local journalism and low-cost, freely available technology.
Comment by TomSO ( member ) 6th July 2010
No more on Carvath. Please. I'm literally begging here guys. Lets keep it hyperlocal. |
Comment by Guest 5th July 2010
Oh dear Carvath again trying to be contoversial yet making a t*sser out of himself again, rumbled Dickie, slink away. |
Comment by Guest 5th July 2010
She'll probably go off "trekking in the Himalayas" if we do that >>>> h**p://www.salfordonline.com/blog_page/17675-identity_of_jennifer-dixgood_jones.html |
Comment by Guest 5th July 2010
Dead easy, ask "Gemma" to reveal herself or true identity, not a big deal and then see if a certain failed PPC will do the same, c,mon it's obvious who it/they are.. |
Comment by TomSO ( member ) 5th July 2010
Interesting yes, provable no. Let's move on, shall we? I'm unwilling to give publicity to Richard Carvath, god knows he doesn't deserve it. So...hyperlocal journalism. Can it be monetised to support journalists or will public funding be the only way? |
Comment by Guest 5th July 2010
I left much the same comment at about 2am last night and Tom said he would have thought that was pretty obvious but could we get back to the topic now. Incidentally, "Roxy Redpants" reappeared on Mole45's blog yesterday, saying Richard had just taken his month long hiatus from the internet, on account of a climbing accident, so "Gemma's" timing is very interesting indeed. |
Comment by Guest 5th July 2010
Mr Carvath absent for quite a while(banned) for using a female name, Roxy Redpants I recall, and then suddenly we have a female "Gemma" defending Carvath, surely a coincidence? or are the two related, I think we should be told.... |
Comment by Editor ( member ) 5th July 2010
Some comments have been removed because of their content |
Comment by Guest 4th July 2010
To "Gemma" - your comments that derail this thread are going to keep getting deleted, but presumably you're allowed to create an account and post your own article. |
Comment by TomSO ( member ) 4th July 2010
Obviously I disagree with you Gemma. Personal attacks on me are fine, I can handle it, but it's not particularly relevant, so let's keep further comments to the topic of hyperlocal, thanks. |
Comment by Guest 4th July 2010
If Tom adopted ANY proper editorial standards whatsoever then that would be a good start (and if Tom does ever acquire some standards he should apply them fairly to everybody, including Richard). What Tom does is make it up as he goes along to suit himself. Gemma. |
Comment by Guest 2nd July 2010
It's always easy to knock somebody else "Gemma" if that really is your name, why not give us the benefit of your obvious superior journalistic expertise and tell us what standards you think Tom should adopt, in particular with reference to Carvath. |
Comment by Guest 2nd July 2010
Oh dear you have been tumbled tom...keep trying pal |
Comment by Guest 2nd July 2010
Like you said Tom, you are not a professional journalist (and it sure does tell for regular viewers of this site). Ottewell is spot on. You haven't got the first idea about editorial standards, as was exemplified by your bizarre treatment of Richard Carvath in recent months. You talk about this site as being for everyone in Salford but the evidence tells a rather different story. This site simply does not have the journalistic standards to be taken too seriously. Gemma |
Comment by Guest 23rd June 2010
SALFORDONLINE MAKES ITS OWN WAY IN THE WORLD... NO PUBLIC MONEY.... ALL THE PUBLIC SECTOR WORKERS THAT WE HAVE BEEN PAYING FOR THAT ARE LOSING THEIR JOBS NOW...WAKEY WAKEY..!! |
Comment by Guest 23rd June 2010
I only take a free copy of his paper if I'm doing some painting or something and want to put it on the floor. |
Comment by Guest 23rd June 2010
David Otwell needs to move on and find a new place in the world...he is press toast these days. Nobody reads newspapers for news. |
Comment by Guest 22nd June 2010
The Salford Star's good in as much as, when it was in a magazine format, I used to read the magazine cover to cover and I don't often do that with magazines but Stephen Kingston's pushing an agenda SO HARD and I'm slightly troubled by the way he has to write every article in slang, like we'd be too thick to understand it if he didn't, when he's actually quite well spoken himself. |
Comment by Guest 21st June 2010
With 20,000 visitors a week and sponsorship from the GMP, GMF, NHS Salford and Salford City Council. Your delivering the goods. Unlike the Salford Star. |
Comment by Guest 21st June 2010
Lindley has some neck, before the election regular press releases from you and your ilk were published here regularly, as for the Salford Star, they tore you and your lot to shreds, any surprise the Tories hate them, thought not. |
Comment by Guest 21st June 2010
SalfordOnline is completely dependent on advertising revenue, you fancy advertising, it's very resonable. |
Comment by Guest 20th June 2010
I think you mean the Grauniad. EJ Thribb, 17 and a half. |
Comment by Guest 20th June 2010
David Ottewell has some gall. It's about time his sorry excuse for a paper did some fact checking itself! This from the same 'local paper' that scrapped it's local staff to subsidise its loss-making national paper 'The Garudian'.
Keep up the good work Salford Online! |
Comment by Guest 20th June 2010
What about Salfordonline, does it or should it get public money? Is it a community resource or just a mouthpiece for the council? Who is behind Salfordonline is it the council, or the Labour party? I think it is reasonable
that we should know. |
Comment by Iain Lindley ( member ) 20th June 2010
Some interesting comments here. SalfordOnline do often print press releases verbatim but at least have the good grace to print the source - this site is a very interesting mix of news aggregator and genuine excellent original local content.
I'm a bit torn on the Star. It's a terrific read - even if the political slant isn't to my taste - but I must confess I'm a bit stumped as to why anyone would think it ought to receive public funding. |
Comment by TomSO ( member ) 19th June 2010
Thanks for the comments. We can't criticise anyone else for press releases - everyone in the business whether multinational conglomerate or one man band uses press releases, but we do try to put the source of our stories so you know whether the basis of an article is Hazel Blears, Barbara Keeley, NHS Salford, or one of the colleges for example. But like you say, we do pull off an amazing amount of truly original content, both video and print. As a general point, the more people we get working with us the better - anyone from students to local people who want to keep their community informed. We're always open to suggestions, new writers and collaborations. As a small and nimble not-for-profit we're in the lucky position of being able to do this. Neither Tony nor I are trained journalists, we just took an opportunity and got out into Salford to see what was there, which is a hell of a lot. |
Comment by Guest 19th June 2010
I can't even get Salford News Network at archive.org now but maybe he meant this type of thing: h**p://salford-manchester.blogspot.com/ |
Comment by Guest 19th June 2010
Maybe he didn't mean SalfordOnline. You definitely couldn't criticise this place for lack of original content. Maybe he meant sites that are similar but much more amateurish, like Salford News Network, which doesn't even seem to be there anymore. |
Comment by Guest 19th June 2010
David Ottewell's comments have been used by people who like to get angry about stuff as a reason to get angry about stuff. He was speaking of his experiences of hyperlocal sites, not of all hyperlocal sites. It should be noted he was very positive about the Salford Star too. Good to see you putting your point across in response, rather than just doing the nonsensical 'the MEN is rubbish' as many people have. |
Comment by Guest 19th June 2010
I read this chap's comments, what a self important little man he is. SalfordOnline does a great job in Salford covering EVERY aspect of events.
As for the Christopher Eccleston video, marvellous stuf, I don,t recall the MEN or The Advertiser getting an interview or even a quote/photograph of him, sour grapes perhaps?.
Keep up the good work, you are appreciated. |
Comment by Guest 19th June 2010
What an arrogant little idiot from the MEN, as if his sad rag is the journalistic bar. True journalism is now dead, hence the 'hyperlocal'. I gave up on the MEN some years ago, dull as dishwater and now even worse after having stripped their 'journalists' back to the bone. Granted, there are many articles on SO which pass themselves off as news but no more or less than that of the MEN. Needless, arrogant and somewhat deluded. For if the hyperlocal were that corrosive, why choose a blog to expound such nonsense, as that is merely drinking from the same cup. Keep up the good work (on the whole) SO. |
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